0:24
[Music]
0:33
thank you
0:41
hey everyone this is WP product talk the place where every week we interview an
0:47
experienced WordPress product owner on strategies tips experiences failures and
0:52
successes of running successful businesses thriving on WordPress and I
0:57
am Matt Cromwell co-founder of give WP and senior director of customer experience at Stellar WP and I'm Katie
1:04
Keith CEO at bontoo plugins today's topic is uh What uh the best
1:11
ways to take I'm messing up the topic because the script is wrong just wing it
1:17
oh we're gonna have Michelle here talking about word camps that's the topic yeah
1:22
and I'm really excited to discuss this topic and not what it said on the script because a lot of us will be going to
1:28
wordcamp Europe next week so this is a really great time to talk about how to get the most out of word camps
1:35
absolutely thank you nice recovery good job and like we have been doing every week
1:42
recently uh we have somebody to introduce Our Guest um so here it goes
1:48
hello I'm Nathan from WP builds and I'm introducing today's WP product talk
1:55
guest which is Michelle frechette Michelle frechette is the director of
2:01
community engagement for Stella WP at liquid web she was called the busiest
2:06
woman in WordPress by Martin mullenweger word campus 2022 can you believe it in addition to
2:15
her work at Stella WP Michelle does a whole bunch of other stuff probably the
2:21
best way to find out about that is to go to her website meet michelle.online yes
2:27
that's a real website there's a fun fact for you I recently had the pleasure of
2:33
riding around on her scooter in a display of sloth like driving it was a
2:41
very embarrassing indeed now enough of that here's Michelle frechette I really
2:48
do hope that you enjoy the show hey
2:54
I'm amazed he wasn't dressed up as you actually I heard his voice I was like if he has
3:01
purple hair yeah oh my goodness
3:07
uh word campus he volunteered to move my scooter at dinner one day we were at a
3:12
very small restaurant and it has two it has like a a speeds that go from Turtle
3:19
to rabbit is literally what it's what it has on it and most people don't realize as soon as you push it goes fast right
3:25
so before he did I turned it down to Turtle not realizing exactly how slow it
3:30
goes and he just started to move it literally a snail's face across this restaurant and we were all dying so
3:36
that's what he's referring to but I've got tears of my eyes I'm laughing
3:46
he's a wonderful person I love it this was a great kickoff and
3:53
it kicked off even with a word Camp reference so yeah we have actually
3:58
another civil story Ali nimmons had a very similar experience with her one of your scooters at Miami
4:03
um yeah yeah she pulled she pulled a Bad Grandpa and
4:09
almost wiped out a whole table from what I understood yeah she didn't do the turtle she did the rabbit and yeah and
4:15
uh yeah it's only went into a wall uh I'm almost dead I swear okay
4:22
well we're so glad to have you here Michelle um I I of course am very happy to have
4:27
you here uh we Katie and I both were just thinking like we need to have Michelle on like what should we talk about we just we're like topic doesn't
4:34
matter just get Michelle in one way or another well I do love word Camp so this is a
4:40
perfect topic for today I love um the networking that happens I love the opportunities to talk about products
4:46
and uh well and you know there's talks there too I understand so there's lots of fun things
4:53
so this is a great opportunity to talk about word camp for sure absolutely so
4:58
that's what we're here to talk about uh best way to leverage work camps for WordPress product owners
5:04
um and we're excited to talk about it the first thing we always do is go around the circle and talk about why
5:09
this is even an important subject at all like who cares like honestly way back in
5:14
the day um when I was chatting with other WordPress product owners um they told me it constantly that they
5:21
didn't think it was valuable um they they didn't see a lot of value in it um uh not only
5:28
um like attending but also like sponsoring they wouldn't sponsor nobody was sponsoring those product owners at
5:34
all and so all the sponsors were these big hosts all the time
5:39
um but um I've been kind of like defending and arguing about uh the value
5:44
of word camps for product owners for years and it feels like um Everybody kind of gets it now I think
5:51
so but at least they're starting to they're starting yeah let's go around and uh and go through
5:57
that Katie you're up first what what's your take um well wordcamps are one of the only
6:02
opportunities to see the community come together in real life in person because
6:07
most of us in the WordPress Community work remotely and you get to meet
6:12
potential customers you can do market research to learn how to make your products great you can partner with
6:18
other WordPress companies make friends strengthen connections that you've made online and through calls and um you can
6:26
even learn something at the talks which apparently exists so I've heard yeah
6:33
a lot of them have talked this year actually yeah I say like the talks aren't important but there's loads I
6:38
want to go to yes absolutely yeah I agree 100 those are all good
6:45
reasons Michelle what's your take yeah so I think it and one of the reasons I think Matt when you said that
6:51
people didn't see the value is because it's really hard to connect Roi to an event right because you're not like you
6:57
don't leave at the end of the day with a full till having sold Products off of a table but what I think is really
7:04
important is the opportunity like Katie said not only to interact with people and
7:09
um all of them perhaps potential customers right but but the opportunity to demonstrate your product the
7:15
opportunity to just build that Network and for a lot of people who are at the beginning stages of having products or
7:22
even if you are an established brand and introducing new products it's an opportunity really to show who you are
7:28
you have a table you have anywhere from hundreds to thousands of people walking by
7:34
um during the event and it's an opportunity to to get that branding out there brand awareness is so huge in our
7:39
community um there are literally thousands of plugins and products and to be able to
7:46
shake hands into real people and show them what you have and talk about that is um it's really huge and I
7:53
think that having sat at tables before for Stellar forgive that it gives you a
8:00
real opportunity I've always appreciated the opportunity to explain who we are and what we do so yeah I think they're
8:07
invaluable absolutely I expected you to come on and just say ah I don't know I don't I don't I don't
8:14
see the value um no yeah right and you say it so well I mean because
8:19
you've been there you've done that um in the description I was like listing off all the things that Michelle has done
8:25
with word Camp I'm like she's done literally all the things in Work Camp um uh organizer speaker
8:32
um attendee behind the scenes yeah sponsor like all the above um you've
8:38
been there and done that um for me word camps are the where the rubber meets the road
8:44
um when it comes to product Market fit and Word of Mouth marketing uh for the most part
8:49
um there's a lot more to it than that but like from a product perspective um like if you want to understand your
8:56
potential customers they are they're attending word camps like if you are selling a WordPress plugin in one form
9:02
or another there's a whole bunch of people who buy WordPress plugins at word camps and if you want to understand what
9:10
makes them decide to buy your Plug-In or not decide to buy your plug-in you get to talk to them
9:15
um and honestly in our like Katie said in our remote environment you don't get a lot of chances to do that
9:21
um and even in a lot of like marketing practices that we've done of like right creating like um customer profiles um we
9:30
sometimes use people's names from word camps um like we definitely have used Devin at like Devin's uh the other
9:37
co-founder of give WP like developer Devin that's a that's like a profile we have for uh for folks
9:43
um and there's other folks who are agency owners Freelancers um you know and you have you can think
9:49
of that person in your mind when you're when you're writing it up um but another one that I think is still
9:55
really really powerful is Word of Mouth marketing I think that's super powerful and honestly it's the way WordPress got
10:00
popular in the first place like WordPress never was big on Advertising it never did a lot of sponsorship stuff
10:06
it did meetups basically it just did a whole bunch of meetups for a really long time and that's where people talk and
10:13
learn together and when you're talking and learning together it just it just has this infectious way of making people
10:19
really loyal to um the thing that they get excited about um so I word camps are just awesome for
10:27
that type of thing um and I think the other one is it's really the absolute best place to learn
10:34
from your peers and your your Frenemies your friendly competitors um
10:39
uh Katie is a is a frenemy of James uh James camp at iconic and Katie and James
10:45
and I spent a ton of time at uh word Camp us this last year uh chatting and just talking about woocommerce and
10:51
talking about WordPress and all kinds of stuff and it was great it's just it's those time those types of experiences
10:57
are things you you never forget really so yeah absolutely and it's one of those
11:03
opportunities too to when you've got that captive audience there to kind of have conversations with specific people
11:09
about your potential roadmap right so like we've been at word campus has give WP before and I've seen Matt Having side
11:16
conversations with his laptop up and going hey this is one of the things I'm thinking about launching next year what is this for your customers and that kind
11:23
of thing and so it's a great opportunity to kind of test the waters too with
11:29
people that you can trust absolutely yeah Katie this is your first
11:35
time sponsoring a word Camp right coming up at Work Camp Europe yeah I was just thinking about that with the laptop and
11:41
how we can demo where we've got 21 premium plugins now so I've been trying
11:46
to think how we can convey that it's not like we can just do one banner and say this is our one product we've got a
11:53
whole Suite of plugins and mostly woocommerce but not just woocommerce so I've been trying to think about how to
11:58
convey that and but yeah we can have a laptop up and show people what they're interested in and I've been I had a call
12:05
with my team yesterday to kind of brief them on how to talk to people and told them this is about the community we're
12:12
not trying to sell plugins just ask them how they use WordPress how you can help them that kind of thing and get the
12:18
conversation going and that's what word camps are all about and then they will
12:23
naturally ask about the products and things but that is secondary the main thing is to be part of the community and
12:29
contribute to it but it's been a lot of work there's planning the sponsorship so
12:35
we'll see how it goes I mean the the the biggest thing for everybody as well
12:41
what's your swag gonna be because like I have my laptop stickered up I have like my one of my favorite things is come
12:49
with half a suitcase empty so I can go home with all the really cool swag right that's the hard planning part too
12:55
because what do you bring that's small enough and and lightweight enough to carry and all of those things but it's
13:00
it's kind of Thunder driver out drive around walk around for the rest of you
13:06
everybody's got out there and learned learn I learned a lot because I bring those products home you know like I've got my mug today with content Journey on
13:12
it and last week I was in Oklahoma learning from Lindsay Miller what content journey is and what they do and
13:18
like now that I've got this mug I've got to think of her every time I use it so you know so Katie I'm anxious to kind of
13:24
come up to your table and say hmm what's Katie got going on so yeah and I do use one of Katie's plugins too so and it's
13:31
not a woocommerce one so there you go yeah you can always use my site to demo if you'd like thank you
13:37
it has give WP on it as well so there you go which one which side is that the wp speakers one because
13:43
yes wpspeakers.com yeah oh yeah it is yeah yeah yep and uh
13:51
the sponsorship and is uh using give WP for sponsorship yeah awesome yeah I I
13:58
got this hat from a word Camp um it's been up WP and actually I haven't worn a work camp shirt in a long time but this
14:04
is actually you can't see it very good but this is a word Camp Switzerland um I think I just got this here and uh
14:12
um Threw It on today and didn't even think about it it's actually pretty perfect um but being on the other side of the
14:18
swag has been um an interesting experience it's like I live on the island of Majorca which is not got big
14:25
companies that you can get a swag from so it all had to be mail order and there was some quality problems and it's not
14:32
easy getting good quality swag even things like why do they why would you get a yo-yo and not print in the middle
14:38
of it it makes no sense obviously you would measure and oh and then we'd
14:43
rather of time and so yeah this type will be your varying quality and something's been sent back and it's been
14:50
harder than I thought but um it's crazy yeah yeah the swag game is so much fun
14:56
we actually um we're sponsoring a stellar wpe this year but I'm gonna in my backpack I'm
15:02
gonna have some special um solid WP swag so um yeah it's a bit of a secret little
15:10
tiny reveal right now so some people should come in and hit me up for it um I can't wait to see it I'm
15:16
something I'm really excited about actually um yeah there's a few people giving away secret swag you have to know the right
15:22
people because only the sponsorship booths are allowed to give it away but other people bring it don't they yeah
15:28
well I have I have a special Lapu sticker that's me it's a Michelle wapoo with purple hair the rimmed glasses and
15:36
a mug with the coffee talk logo on it so if anybody wants one of my stickers
15:41
I saw that on Twitter it's amazing yeah it was a lot of fun to put together
15:48
I'm not sponsoring it's not it's it's just literally a giveaway
15:53
that's actually an important one like uh sometimes I I do know folks along the way
15:59
um who have kind of done some gorilla swag um you know what I mean like
16:04
um secretly having uh yeah their their stuff there and they're when they're not sponsors like you're not supposed to do
16:10
that kind of thing oh yeah yeah I know people doing that yeah yeah yeah it's uh it you know and it's it's not Kosher
16:17
um and the sponsors do spend a lot of money to be there and that kind of thing um personal stickers is not exactly the
16:24
same yeah exactly not a product if it was a product that I would absolutely not do that so oh no I like I I don't
16:31
think I'm throwing these folks on the bus but the beaver Builder guys a while back got in some serious trouble they
16:37
were giving away giant plushies uh and I have like three of them I have one from Phoenix where they had
16:44
it there legally so that was good we got a couple of folks who are excited
16:50
about the swag here um I think Anastasia's talking about your stickers um yeah I I will bring them with me you
16:56
can grab one anytime yeah Patrick is about the big luggage yeah
17:02
yeah so well swag is definitely fun
17:07
um and I love the conversation around like what is the actual Roi um which
17:12
we're talking about in terms of like talking to your customers and being able to show folks and get the get the feedback and things like that
17:18
um any other types of like what are other ways like with Michelle for you what is it like when you come back from
17:24
a Work Camp uh from a product perspective when do you say like oh that was really successful like what happened
17:31
what happened that that was successful yeah so um I was at word Camp Boston in 20
17:39
18 or 19 I'm not remembering I think it was 2018. um with uh let's see who was there it
17:46
was two other oh it was um Kevin and Sam from give WP they're there and I think
17:51
all three of us were speaking there too and I was a relative unknown in WordPress at the time I didn't have a
17:57
lot of followers or whatever and get like a thousand followers on Twitter and I brought my Wonder Woman glasses so
18:05
they're just a fun little thing that's one of them and I had a talk about being a WordPress superhero how you could
18:11
contribute to the community and how you can you know pay it forward those kinds of things and I said I would love to have anybody
18:18
stop by take a selfie with my glasses and show that you're also a WordPress superhero that started conversations
18:24
people came to our table and while they were there taking their selfie with me they also were talking about well what
18:30
is give WP and I got connected to so many people they gave me their cards they wrote down their email addresses
18:36
and I followed up and ended up with I think around 10 um online Demos in the two or three
18:42
weeks immediately following that word Camp so talk about a funnel right that actually did lead to some sales and
18:49
conversations and some of those sales didn't happen immediately and then maybe two or three months down the road when
18:54
that person was ready to build that site or work with that customer but it was just like immediate gratification to
19:01
have somebody say here's my card I want to follow up and to be able to email out to those people and say hey let's follow
19:07
up here's my demo link sign up for my calendar and actually follow through with those so I think it's really if you
19:15
you can always connect the ROI that directly you have to think of it as your top of funnel it's the it's like sending
19:21
out newsletters and hoping that at some point people click through and and like make that purchase it's all part of that
19:28
funnel system and if we can get them in the funnel by having those one-on-one conversations and then follow up with
19:33
those emails and follow up with those phone calls like we do at give WP and those other things then you have much
19:39
more opportunities to make those sales down the line because you've made an impression as a brand in person
19:45
absolutely I love it that's I mean it's it's so true like for me over the years
19:51
with with give in particular I started to narrow in on the word camps that I felt like was best for give to sponsor
19:58
and like I I do want to say like product folks you should absolutely sponsor a word camp in one way or
20:04
another uh as much as you can I think that uh Katie that you get to do Europe I think is amazing I think it's
20:09
wonderful um but I think also it's really important to try to narrow in on what
20:15
your audience is or where you think your audience will be and for us in the end we narrowed in on War Camp Sacramento
20:21
um and we're at Camp Miami Miami is basically the largest word camp in North
20:27
America besides us um and um and it has been for a long time and um that to me was because when
20:35
I was at the booth um I had a lot of folks who our question was always well what do you do with
20:40
WordPress and they and I got so many people at those camps that said well I build websites for non-profits I'm like
20:47
that's interesting let's talk about it um and that I mean Sacramento is a
20:54
capital uh California and tons of non-profits there and then Miami is just
21:00
so large that there's a lot of folks building for nonprofits there as well well even recently Kathy's aunt and I
21:05
were at word Camp Phoenix we were both speakers and can be sponsored as Cadence which is part of Stellar WP and we were
21:11
right next to Beaver Builder like our booths were side by side with fever Builder and people would come down the hall and they would stop a beaver
21:18
Builder first and then they'd come over to our table and they'd say so how are you different than them and I said well
21:24
well you know it's page Builders are very similar and you're going to find things you like or don't like but ours
21:30
is free and you can start with that before you upgrade and they're like oh free you say and I had people installing
21:35
it on their tablets right there and then and still messaging me on Twitter now DM
21:40
how much they love Cadence and so it's an opportunity even though I love the beaver Builder guys I actually did an
21:46
episode um with Robbie recently that's going to go up live on WP coffee talk so like like you say we're Frenemies we're
21:53
friends all of those things we all have our products but the opportunity to like have some playful banter between the
21:58
tables about what's better or worse or hey come over here ours is better than theirs and but in a friendly way
22:04
um just really helped people kind of hone in on what they were interested in learning about nice and we had we had
22:10
yoyos too and the people liked the yo-yos Katie oh yeah I did a poll on Twitter to see if people want them and
22:16
55 said yes so I'm like fine and um taka made a good point about
22:23
um bringing people with kids need to bring their kids something back I thought yeah that's fair otherwise
22:28
you've got to find a shop or go to the airport and kids like swag that you get things like the ghost
22:34
um little ghost Lego man and things like that and and I've always brought them and my yeah your Minifigs two weeks in a
22:43
row we've seen that impressive yeah yeah and so it is good to get things for
22:48
kids that's a bottle opener yeah yeah we did that for years and we started to be
22:55
like oh we don't want to be known as like the guys who are like giving out like beer stuff all the time so
23:01
I may have a few of those on my fridge still yeah they're really good because these things they stick around for years
23:06
don't they and you do think of the company each time but I think we should talk a bit about people that are going
23:12
to word Camp Europe but are not sponsoring because they're less likely to make direct sales I would say than
23:20
the people who are sponsoring so maybe we should talk a bit about Partnerships and how to maybe how to network if
23:27
you're not comfortable with that and how to kind of arrange Partnerships with other plunking academies no is that a
23:33
little bit of your experience like where that convinced you to sponsor this time around
23:40
um it just felt like the right time in the life cycle of the company to see how it goes really last year at word Camp
23:47
Europe there were six of us from Barn too and it was the first time I'd ever met any of my team members in person
23:55
um except for my husband who doesn't count and it was amazing there was six of us
24:01
and then I was like that's enough to sponsor we could do a road trip so um I
24:07
think we've got six again this year even though the team's bigger we have the same number of people in Europe that are
24:13
coming and it felt like we could cope as a team whereas maybe um the last co uh the pre-covered word
24:20
camps it would have just been me and Andy sponsoring and that's a bit intense so
24:25
um it's a bit of an experiment we'll see but I don't want to be kind of stuck on the table all the time it's important to
24:31
go around and network more generally and it's funny because most people at word
24:37
campus I think statistically would be labeled as introverts and maybe aren't the most natural networkers but I do
24:45
find it's this unique environment where you can just go and walk up to anybody and feel comfortable talking to them and
24:52
I say that as well as a woman in a male dominated environment I could walk up to anybody quite happily at a word camp and
25:00
have a conversation with them which you wouldn't necessarily do in other parts of your life yeah
25:05
I we I was in working of Asia and we were not sponsors I was a speaker there
25:10
but it gave me an opportunity to do tremendous amount of networking hand out business cards and connect with some of
25:18
sellers already partners and some of people who were interested in talking to Stella about Partnerships and mergers
25:24
and Acquisitions and all of those things because you know we have those kinds of people who are like are you looking at more and I'm like I don't know but I can
25:31
introduce you to people you know and making those connections and if you're an introvert then you look for somebody
25:37
like me who's an extrovert and you say hey can I spend we'll play with you and walk around and will you introduce me to
25:42
people and why not right it all works yeah absolutely
25:49
um what about some tips there in terms of like just um how folks can Network
25:55
networking tips essentially um what do we got
26:01
I I say that swag is there for you to take which means you don't have to walk up to a table and say can I steal one of
26:08
these or can I have one of these it's there because people bring it to give it to you to start those conversations so
26:14
walk up to the table if you're interested in that pen or you're sorry my screen just went to safe mode uh if
26:21
you're interested in that pen you're interested in that sticker you're interested in that mug whatever it is walk up and say you know what does your
26:27
plugin do or what does your theme do or what does your company do and and take the swag confidently but have a
26:33
conversation with the people that are there not only will you learn something about their product whether you end up being interested in it or not you've
26:40
started to make those connections and the first time you do that's the hardest and once you realize that people are
26:45
there to talk to you they want to talk to you they're not looking down on you because you want their swag
26:50
um that's that opens up those doors that's why it's there it's there for conversations it's there for Branding
26:56
and it's there to start making those connections yeah absolutely we a couple
27:01
different times throughout the conversation already we kind of made these sideways jokes about oh I guess
27:06
there are some talks happening as well and I think that's because like we all don't really attend talks very much
27:13
right like it's essentially like the hallway track uh this is what we call it like the hallway track is where
27:20
everybody's hanging out outside of the talks um and that's kind of where some of the best networking happens right
27:27
although I have had some incredible talks with people sitting waiting for
27:32
the next talk to start that's why I met um Niall Flores that's how I met Michelle Butcher Jones that's how I met
27:38
Michelle um I can't think of his last name in Canada like that's how I met so many people that like somebody said oh I need
27:45
a dongle and I'm like I have a dongle and those conversations and so um sometimes sitting next to one person
27:51
and having to either look on your phone or engage is a
27:56
great way I say put the phone away and engage with the person next to you um absolutely yeah it's important to
28:03
look open it's so easy when you're feeling a bit uncomfortable to get your phone out and even if you're not doing
28:09
much or just check your emails and um actually if you don't do that people are
28:14
more like people will feel more comfortable approaching you won't they yeah so if you imagine being in a talk
28:19
waiting or in between talks waiting for it to start if you just sit people are more likely to talk to you than if
28:25
you're on your phone and the other thing the other thing so there's two ideas too this is a great time to talk about the
28:30
Pac-Man concept that we've talked about within the community a lot which is if you have a group of people talking to
28:36
one another make sure it's a c and not a circle right so that there's always room for other people to join the
28:41
conversation so it doesn't feel like they have to burst into your your little group they can be welcomed into that
28:48
group and that's a great way to like just be open to other people coming up to you the other thing is I know my
28:55
friends I love my friends I'll see them at the parties but when I go into lunch for example I go go to a table that's
29:02
either empty and let people come to me like hey is that seat taken now please join me or I look for a table that has
29:08
one seat open with people I don't know and I'll go to that table and I'll say hey can I sit here and then I just
29:13
introduce myself and ask people about themselves and start those conversations um usually the people who are sitting by
29:19
themselves are the introverts who are just either hoping that I will go away or hoping that somebody like me will
29:25
join them and then start those conversations too so if you can put yourself out there enough to either sit
29:31
alone and hope other people join you or leave some space join a table that's a
29:36
great way because over food is a great way to talk to people there's low pressure everybody's eating you can look
29:41
at your plate you know there's lots of opportunities for conversation that feel low impact so
29:48
I think those are great ways to engage as well absolutely yeah I asked about Swag here and a couple good responses
29:55
Patrick says he's jealous of my spin up WP cap um I got that from from Brad himself um and I some of my best
30:02
conversations about how to manage product teams have happened at Work Camp
30:07
with Brad thousand heart he's such a just insightful person and has tons of experience uh sometime if you ever meet
30:14
Brad at a word camp or whatnot ask him what he does for for team Retreats because it's amazing like they go to
30:21
Crazy places um Anastasia here says uh she loves pins custom-made dolls that's a cool one I
30:27
showed the the where Camp us wapu I got a while back and yes I have four kids so
30:33
I got four of these um so um yeah good stuff Katie sorry what were
30:39
you saying um I've forgotten now it followed on from the previous bits oh yeah it was
30:46
about how easy it is to hang around with the people you know um that's the easy option isn't it so I really like
30:52
Michelle's advice about making an effort to find people that are on their own or go to a table with a gap because it is
30:59
very easy to stick with your friends I've um as part of my brief to my team I
31:04
have told them don't just come to the sponsorship stand when you're not voted on network meet other people because I
31:11
think it will be easy for them to Cluster when they don't need to yeah absolutely yeah really good tip
31:18
um I will say another really important aspect that I meant to mention earlier and I forgot is that like it's a great
31:25
place to to get to know folks who you might one day want to hire I mean I met Michelle at a word Camp so
31:34
I met Ben Meredith at a word camp like so many of the really great folks on our
31:40
teams we've met at word camps in different ways uh Taylor Walden like she was wandering around being like who
31:46
needs a writer and I was like um I need a writer um and uh that was five years ago now
31:52
she just had her five-year anniversary yeah that was amazing um so wordcamps are a great place to
31:59
hire too um and um and a great place to get to know other folks
32:04
um so true and if you're looking for a job it's a great place to make those connections as well because even if a
32:10
company is not hiring right now they may be hiring next year and they may remember that conversation with you right and you can jog their memory too
32:16
if you need to absolutely and there's usually a job board isn't there where people can write any openings on so
32:23
that's a good way to know who to approach absolutely yep
32:29
um let's jump into some advice like normally we kind of crammed this in at the very end but I feel like this is the
32:35
kind of subject where um there's probably a lot of tips we should or could give
32:41
um to folks who are just jumping in um to word counts for the first time so
32:46
best advice we might go around the horn maybe twice we'll see what happens
32:51
um or five times who knows but um best let's start with just the shortest like
32:57
um just like the one two sentence elevator pitch best advice brand new WordPress product owner go into their
33:03
first word Camp ever what are you going to tell them to do I guess I'll have fun have fun with it
33:09
because this is an opportunity to really shine to share what you have to do and if you look like you're having fun
33:15
people are more likely to engage with you especially as a sponsor uh with your new product so absolutely dive in and
33:22
enjoy it for every moment that you can about it Katie if it's if you're a
33:29
product owner going to your first word Camp my advice is to seek out other products owners
33:35
um that's what I have found most helpful everybody is great to meet but I I do
33:42
like to go through the list of attendees and reach out to people I've talked to online or who I've I know of and do
33:49
something similar to what I do and um two or three times at word camps I've um
33:55
co-organized like drinks for product owners um who because it is useful to make people do the same thing as you so I'd
34:02
where's my camera gone that's strange um so I would suggest um reaching out to
34:07
them on purpose um to talk to product owners specifically
34:13
nice I would um I would say be intentional one way or the other you have to be intentional and there's
34:19
there's two routes generally it's like maybe you're the type that likes to like schedule things in advance and if that's
34:25
the case do like what Katie said and um you're gonna go through the list
34:30
um uh of attendees everywhere Camp has a attendees page you're going to find the folks that you want to meet up with and
34:38
reach out to them in advance um try to look for warm invites uh not not just jumping into DMS if you can
34:44
avoid it um and try to book some time with folks uh generally speaking if it's like hey I
34:51
saw your attending Work Camp uh EU and I'd love to connect like folks get it
34:56
that happens all the time um or if you're more like me
35:01
um then don't plan anything um just jump straight into it but then
35:07
the intention yeah intentionality comes in you have to get
35:12
out there you have to go into the hallway track and look for people and be intentional about like chasing dumb
35:17
folks and like forcing that Pac-Man to happen if it's not happening
35:22
um and and meet meet and greet and like be willing to shake hands and whatnot um so and that's that's kind of how I am
35:30
more it's like I I like to not plan and see what happens um more but either way both requires
35:37
intentionality so and and I like a hybrid so I like it's like some of it I like to plan and the others I like to
35:43
keep open um there are people that wanted to meet up with me at Work Camp EU and so I
35:48
actually set aside some time created a calendly link and people can sign up for a half an hour of my time I don't know
35:54
where I'll meet them yet because I have to figure it out when I get there I'll adjust accordingly but um that I can kind of seat myself in one
36:01
place keep the coffee flowing and have lots of conversations with people so I'm really excited about that I've got about 10
36:07
10 meetings already set up just people want to pick my brain or they have never met me before those kinds of things and
36:12
it gives me an opportunity to talk about all of our products it gives me an opportunity to connect with people
36:18
one-on-one and grow that Network and the um the relationships for the different things that I do within WordPress
36:24
absolutely I think another good tip is to pace yourself like I feel like it's really
36:31
easy to get um kind of into deep or overwhelmed there's in so many ways like especially
36:38
if it's a big one like us or or Europe it's really like three full days of like
36:44
18 hour activity um and um it can get a bit much like me
36:49
personally I'm a social extrovert like I like doing the social thing but it drains me
36:54
um I gotta take a break at some point or else I'm gonna go crazy I'm not gonna make it to the end or I'm going to be a
37:00
wreck on Monday you know what I mean um so one way or another try to try to think about the whole plan of the
37:07
weekend and kind of pace yourself and look for the Times where you might be able to have some time by yourself or
37:12
maybe just like go off on lunch with one person instead uh things like that Michelle I think you've talked a bit
37:18
about like mental health and word camps and things like that before absolutely and one of the nice things especially
37:23
about the flagship um events they almost always have a quiet room so if you do just kind of
37:29
want maybe your hotel's too far away or you don't want to like extract yourself for that much time you can usually find
37:35
a quiet room where other people are just on their laptops or maybe there's nobody in there at all and you can just kind of
37:40
get away from the noise away from the chaos and kind of reground yourself instead of yourself nicely
37:46
one of the other things that camps do often is hey having others the this Camp has a kids camp associated with so word
37:53
can't be you has kids camp as well there's lots of opportunities to do things that aren't in the hallway track
37:59
where all the noise is and have those conversations or just that space away I'm gonna guess the weather will be
38:06
really nice and so even if you just want to take a walk outside that gives you an opportunity to do that so absolutely
38:12
your mental health protect your mental health at all costs yeah there are opportunities to unwind I
38:19
actually find that the talks or if I need some um time out just going to a talk takes off the pressure uh at word
38:26
cam um Europe in Berlin in 2019 Andy and I actually escaped for a few hours and
38:32
played Crazy Golf nearby and um just some time out with maybe one person that
38:37
you know better than the other people there for example um that can be your chance to unwind and
38:44
where possible I do like staying at the venue because you've got your room nearby as well although that's not
38:51
always possible at work camps it's crazy golf mini golf is that what
38:57
it is yeah mini golf's ambiguous because you get the golf where there's no obstacles as well that they call that
39:03
but crazy golf's the one with the obstacles that's more fun and not serious and they sell in well you will
39:09
know this in Germany they sell beer at golf course at crazy golf courses in
39:15
England it's just mainly kids stuff uh the Germans will sell beer anywhere that
39:20
they can so yeah so that was fun they even had little tables to put your drinks on and things
39:28
also from Patrick uh he thought about sharing a calendly link as well to book some time but not sure if it's a good
39:34
fit that's the thing you got to think about um you gotta think about like um what's
39:39
the best idea for you or what's the best option for you in many ways I think one another tip I would have if you're going
39:46
to if you're going as an attendee not sponsoring you have a product like you should definitely wear your shirt that's
39:52
like says what your product is or whatever um but I would suggest don't talk about
39:57
your product like when you jump into a circle or a Pac-Man if you want to chat with folks don't talk about your product
40:03
just talk just be interesting just relate be relatable
40:09
um and as soon as somebody asks then that's your opportunity um uh and you're not selling like in
40:15
those circumstances ever you're just informing and and being a sociable person like it word camps generally
40:23
speaking when I tell folks who come into our team like it's still seller who are maybe new never been to work hems before
40:28
or new to Wordpress I tell them think of word camps more like family reunions and less like conferences that's really how
40:36
they operate like folks know each other and they're excited to be around each other again and if you come off really
40:41
salesy and shmarmy like you're not gonna win so that's another big tip I think
40:46
but also I've been to one before don't feel bad if you don't if you're walking into the family reunion for the first
40:52
time because it can have that feel to it but it also is welcoming and encompassing of new people so you can be
40:58
the person who just married into the family and still feel like you belong to that family and so I think that's important to remember too it's not
41:04
exclusive there's not an exclusivity about it where new people aren't welcome because absolutely uh new people are
41:10
welcomed yeah I love it yeah I like how you're able to keep that analogy going sometimes analogies don't fly so well
41:17
but this one works I think Katie has that been your experience our
41:24
work camps like a family reunion for you in some way yeah it's interesting because it is because you see the same
41:30
people um over different word camps you also meet people online email people I like
41:37
your point a minute ago Matt about the t-shirts because I think if you have products which that's who this podcast
41:44
is aimed at so um even if you're not sponsoring you should definitely have a t-shirt with
41:49
your product name on it and even if you're quite small it's really surprising how many people will have
41:56
heard of you based on the T-shirt they're like oh Bantu dude hang on how have you heard of us
42:01
and I met a crazy drunk fan once at a WP engine party and it was our most obscure
42:08
products and she I didn't even believe her for ages that she'd used it but I
42:14
looked her up afterwards and yep we have support tickets and things and we were so new I couldn't imagine that somebody
42:21
would recognize us from our t-shirts but it is really nice and helps to
42:26
um start off those conversations because they know to approach you absolutely that's cool for sure that's so much fun
42:35
um cool well any other last tips or advice what not write things down so if
42:40
there's things you want to remember you will not remember them when you get back you just won't especially if there's
42:46
more than one thing you want to remember so either you're using something on your phone to kind of keep track if you have an actual physical notebook whether you
42:52
pick it up there or not write things down that you want to follow up on afterwards um and then people love reading blog
42:58
posts afterwards about like your take on what happened there so as a company especially if you can talk about your
43:04
experiences there that will help other people as well and not in a salesy way right like this is this was our experience that we're at Camp Europe
43:10
would we do it again absolutely those kinds of things so follow up um with your thoughts afterwards give
43:17
yourself a few days to rest but then follow up with the things that you wanted to follow up on but write them down so you don't forget
43:22
what they were nice Definitely we got burgit here don't feel shy of
43:28
someone in the group is like a celebrity like Michelle uh it's all about networking and connecting for Keith's a
43:35
celebrity like she's super intimidating I'm just kidding
43:40
I hope she's gonna I swear in person so I'm that's the one
43:47
thing I'm so excited about is when I was at Asia and now in Europe seeing people who are friends and have been friends
43:52
online forever and then actually being able to see them in person is so exciting yeah absolutely
43:58
well folks um now we're gonna wrap it up normally we talk about what's coming next week
44:04
next week is a big dud we're just gonna not do anything right we're gonna be at we're gonna be in Athens Katie's gonna
44:11
be busy sponsoring and at the table and whatnot I'll be about I'm definitely not podcasting
44:18
I'm I'm one of the organizers I'm going to be busy and and a sponsor and it's going to be hectic so we're just like ah
44:24
we're going to take a break um and I'm just attending so I'm going to do all the things yes it's gonna be
44:29
great um so hope everybody has a really great Work Camp Europe and whatever comes next
44:35
with WP product talk we will post about it so we have the next one arranged if
44:41
we want to oh we do well people yes we are so organized not we by we I mean you
44:48
yeah we have Francisco apaso coming on uh to talk about Partnerships which is a
44:55
really nice one to follow a word camp for those of you who are going because you'll have been meeting people how do
45:01
you make that happen as Michelle said right you've written things down how do you reach out and make those
45:07
Partnerships happen afterwards so we'll be talking about Partnerships in two weeks I like it perfect it's good we
45:14
have a tentative one after that I need to work on that one so great Michelle thanks so much for being
45:20
here thanks for having me everyone have a good week and have a good word Camp yeah
45:25
and see some of you next week yeah see you there bye